MN 72. With Vaccha on Fire
I heard the following.
The Buddha was once staying in Jeta’s grove, Anathapindika’s park at Savatthi. A wanderer from the Vaccha clan approached the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him. After a polite greeting and exchange he sat down to a side. He then asked:
“Sir Gotama, is your view that the universe is eternal, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view, Vaccha.”
“Then is your view that the universe is noneternal, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that the universe is finite, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that the universe is infinite, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
Then is your view that the soul is identical to the body, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that the soul is separate from the body, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that after death a Truthfinder still exists, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that after death a Truthfinder no longer exists, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that after death a Truthfinder both still exists and no longer exists, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Then is your view that after death a Truthfinder neither still exists nor no longer exists, that this the only truth and other ideas are mistaken?”
“I don’t have that view.”
“Sir Gotama, when I asked you these questions, each time you responded that you don’t have that view. What problem do you see that makes you avoid all these beliefs?”
“Vaccha, these beliefs are theories, tickets, wastelands, contortions, evasions, and chains. They are bound to suffering, trouble, fevers, and distress and lead away from disillusionment, losing desire, cessation, peace, special knowledge, awakening, and extinguishment. That is the problem I see that makes me avoid all these beliefs.”
“Then do you have any beliefs at all, Sir Gotama?”
“The Truthfinder no longer has beliefs, for the Truthfinder has seen how form is, how it originates, and how it disappears. The Truthfinder has seen how feeling, perception, will, and consciousness are, how they originate, and how they disappear. Therefore, the Truthfinder is liberated, I tell you, because all imaginations, disturbances, conceptions of ‘I’, conceptions of ‘mine’, and tendencies towards conceit have ended, faded away, and ceased. These things were relinquished and abandoned, and they are not taken back up.”
“Sir Gotama, a mendicant whose mind is liberated in such a way, where will he be reborn?”
“Vaccha, ‘he will be reborn’ is not the case.”
“Then perhaps he will not be reborn?”
“‘He will not be reborn’ is not the case.”
“Then perhaps he will be both reborn and not reborn?”
“‘He will be both reborn and not reborn’ is not the case.”
“Then perhaps he will be neither reborn nor not reborn?”
“‘He will be neither reborn nor not reborn’ is not the case.”
“Sir Gotama, when I asked you these questions, you responded, ‘It is not the case.’ I am confused and puzzled now. I lost the confidence I gained from previous conversation with you.”
“Of course you are confused and puzzled, Vaccha. This principle is deep, subtle, peaceful, and sublime. It is beyond the scope of speculation, hard to see, hard to grasp, only realizable by the wise. It is hard to understand for you, having a different view, conviction, practice, and teacher. Therefore, let me ask you some questions in return. Please answer as you like. What do you think, Vaccha? If a fire were burning in front of you, would you know that it was burning in front of you?”
“I would, sir Gotama.”
“If somebody asked you what that fire needs to burn, what would you answer?”
“When asked that, I would answer that it needs fuel such as grass and twigs to burn.”
“If that fire in front of you would be extinguished, would you know that it was extinguished?”
“I would.”
“If somebody asked you in which direction that fire had gone—to the east, west, north, or south—what would you answer?”
“None is the case. The fire needs fuel such as grass and twigs to burn. When that runs out and no extra fuel is added, the fire can only be said to be extinguished.”
“Likewise, Vaccha, any kind of form based upon which you might assert a Truthfinder, the Truthfinder has let go of. He cut off its roots, made it like a palm stump, put an end to it so that it will not rearise in the future.
The Truthfinder is liberated from identifying with form, being as deep, as immeasurable, and as hard to fathom as the ocean. ‘He will be reborn’ is not the case. ‘He will not be reborn’ is not the case. ‘He will be both reborn and not reborn’ is not the case. ‘He will be neither reborn nor not reborn’ is not the case.
Any kind of feeling, perception, will, or consciousness based upon which you might assert a Truthfinder, the Truthfinder has let go of. He cut off their roots, made them like a palm stump, put an end to them so that they will not rearise in the future
The Truthfinder is liberated from identifying with feeling, perception, will, and consciousness, being as deep, as immeasurable, and as hard to fathom as the ocean. ‘He will be reborn’ is not the case. ‘He will not be reborn’ is not the case. ‘He will be both reborn and not reborn’ is not the case. ‘He will be neither reborn nor not reborn’ is not the case.”
After hearing this, the wanderer from the Vaccha clan said to the Buddha: “Sir Gotama, imagine a great sal tree close to a village or town. Because of its impermanence, its leaves, branches, bark, and sapwood fall off. At some time it will be stripped of all its leaves, branches, bark, and sapwood, so it comes to consists purely of its heartwood core. Likewise, your explanation is stripped of its leaves, branches, bark, and sapwood. It consists purely of its hardwood core.
It’s magnificent, Sir Gotama! You have clarified your teachings in many ways. It is like you put things right side up, unveil what is concealed, point the way to those who are lost, and shine a light in the darkness so others can see. I take refuge in you, Sir Gotama, and in your teaching and order of mendicants. From now on remember me as a lay follower who has taken refuge for life.”